Jenny’s going to talk about her work and her life and just her everything. And it’s great because it’s going to be a conversation with the University of Florida’s own Matt Sheehan. So I’m going to introduce Jenny and Matt. Jenny and Matt. What do you mean? We can’t find her. We’ve got the stage manager looking right now. Jenny’s nowhere? She’s not backstage. She’s somewhere. You know Jenny’s spirit animal is a taxidermied animal. She’s in the bathroom. She’s in the bathroom. We found her. She’s in the bathroom. We’ll hold on to that. We plan for this. Why don’t you take the live cam and meet me out here. All right. Jenny. Jenny. Jenny. I’m hiding. Jenny, you’re hiding. I’m hiding. It’s time to go on. I don’t think I can do this. Okay. I’m going to go and talk to you. And we’ll talk there. So. You okay? Yeah. I thought I took an anxiety pill and I think it was maybe an Advil and it’s not working well. Okay. Well, you know, you’ve been fairly vocal and writing about your challenges with anxiety and mental health. You’ve created this real big following about it. How have you coped with that? How has that helped you? Well, I’m really lucky that I have a great community of people who are there to talk to me whenever I get scared on the internet because they’re also scared and don’t leave their house. And a lot of times I just hide in the bathroom and a lot of therapy and medicine and then back into the bathroom again. Well, we, by reading your blog and your book, we kind of figure that might happen, which is why we had Plan B here. But we’re really happy that you’re able to join us here at Frank and to talk about your experience with forming a community and really building a community through humor is a great way of sharing people’s stories. What’s one lesson that you would share with our audience and our community? I think that the most important thing that I have learned, well, actually two things. One is that depression lies and that when you’re listening to your head and you are in the middle of a depression, you can’t trust it. And then the second thing is that you’re not alone because everybody feels like they’re alone. So technically, if you feel like you’re alone, you’re probably the least alone you’ve ever been because everyone is there with you. And you’ve created that sense of not aloneness through your humor. I think you’ve got a lot of big fans in our audience and here in Gainesville. Do you feel that you can maybe head out to the audience? We promise that, you know, I know sometimes your husband doesn’t allow you to use certain words or swearing, but we’re a very safe community. How are you feeling? I think I’m okay. I think the Beta Blocker or Advil is kicking in and I’m going to trust you that this is going to be okay. It will be fine. We’re going to be good. You ready? I’m ready. All right. Let’s go, Jane. All right. Ready? Let’s all go to the lobby. Let’s all go to the lobby. Let’s all go to the lobby to get ourselves a seat. I found it. Not a phrase, not a phrase. Take a step, everybody, everybody. Come take my hand, come take my hand. That was scary. It was. I’m kind of scared here a little bit. But, you know, this is a safe space. And I have to ask Jenny, who’s your friend? This is Professor Higgins. He is my service animal. And I actually, he’s not my, he’s actually, he belongs to Florida, so it’s not my fault. I have been in love with taxidermy ever since I was a little kid. My father is a taxidermist. And it was a bit of an issue because I’m like a card-carrying member of PETA. And so, you know, but I still struggled with it. And then I realized later, you know what? I can get really old ones that I were like roadkill. And that way, nothing died technically. I mean, you did die, but he’s still fine. And so I started writing about taxidermy and it became sort of one of the things that I was known for. And when I came to the hotel, my hotel room was filled with taxidermy, including the hotel room. And I was like, this guy? Professor Higgins? And also some things I don’t even know what they are. Yeah, we saw that. This is probably the only conference that has a director of taxidermy. But special thanks to Alison Clark in the Florida Museum of Natural History for helping with us there. So stuffed animals are kind of a theme for you, or not stuffed animal. I guess they are technically stuffed animals, but that’s how, that’s what we told the hotel we were bringing in stuffed animals. That’s how we got it through. Housekeeping was not happy. I’m sure there was quite a surprise for them. But on your blog, you’ve had a couple of your own collection here, which I wanted to highlight. You can see it right there. But you know, the Harry Potter theme, you like dressing up your animals? Yeah, I do. I like to find old ones and then give them a new life. And yeah, especially right now I’m really into like steampunk Victorian kind of stuff, which is sort of fascinating. It is, and this one I love too. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and I buy these things and they’re like $10 and my husband’s always like, what are you doing? And I’m like, this is going to be great. And then they become these giant memes on the internet and he’s like, I don’t know what you’re doing, but I guess keep doing it. Good job, I guess. But yeah. Well, so just some of you, some of your collection and Victor plays a, this is one of our favorites here in Florida to the surprise Fox. Crap taxidermy, if any of you like taxidermy, that’s a great Twitter. It’s not one of yours, but I know you guys submit to each other a lot. Crappy taxidermy. Crappy taxidermy. Yes. There’s multiple crappies. There’s a bunch of them. It’s big. Who knew? Who knew? Victor plays a large role in a lot of your stories and you have a very supportive husband, it seems, although sometimes maybe plays a martyr in some of your stuff. And, you know, I made a reference earlier about how he doesn’t like, he advises you against certain words and so forth, but this is a safe space. So feel free to go throughout. And really, he just says that just because he knows that I like to do everything he tells me not to do. Okay. So for the most part, yeah, he’s always a straight man on my blog and in my books, but in real life, he’s the funny one. And I know he’s watching this, so you’re the funny one. He wins. I’m bringing this home. I’m not. I’m going to try to. So, sorry. I kept the giggles. Frank’s all about building communities and that’s why we really were interested in bringing you here other than we love you and, you know, we get more stuffed animals. It’s all about building community and that’s kind of what you’ve done through it and some success metrics that we’ve had to your books and blogs and so forth. You have nearly 400,000 Twitter followers. Your book, which is the New York, the Let’s Pretend This Never Happened, which was mentioned earlier is a New York Times bestseller. It’s the 200, I’m sorry, 2498th most popular book on Amazon. It was number one the first week. It’s been years. Well, you got another one coming out, which we’ll talk about in a little bit. It’s the 28th most popular book in humor. And this is the stat that I found fascinating and this must make me really feel great is it’s number 40 in biographies and biographies by women. And I just thought that was, that was amazing. And I know there’s fluctuations there. So, you know, in your book, you made reference to a conversation that you had with Victor. And I’m quoting here, there aren’t even metrics for the shit that I do. It’s true. It’s absolutely true. Even though there are metrics. Well, I mean, there kind of are, but not really. I am incredibly lucky and a lot of times sort of feel bad that I’m going to have to say this out loud when you just said you brought me into talk about community. Because it was sort of an accident. I am very lucky that I have found my tribe. And I think that there is for everybody in the world, there is and for me, it’s a bunch of intellectual misfits who are socially awkward and ask questions. Like why Jesus doesn’t, why isn’t he classified as a zombie since he came back from the dead? And like those sort of questions. And you know, you live your life and you think I’m the only one. I’m the weirdo. I’m the one girl who like hides in the bathroom from, you know, high school through college and real life forever. And then all of a sudden you realize, oh, okay, maybe I am one in a thousand. But then you get it on the internet and you realize, what in a thousand adds up? I was really, really lucky because I, when I was writing for the bloggers and I was having these problems with mental illness and depression was the main one. I’ve always had anxiety disorder, but you can take medicine for anxiety disorder. And with depression, when you go and do a deep depression, it’s not like you can pop a pill and be like, woohoo, I’m fine. And I was having these periods of a week to two weeks at a time where I couldn’t get out of bed. And what I would do is I always had some extra blog posts that I had written. And so when I was in these depressive periods, I would just post an old blog post and I would go to approve comments and they would be like, you’re so funny. Oh my gosh, that’s hilarious. And I was like, I’m such a fucking liar. I’m like, I’m I have created this false history of myself. And so I decided I would just come out and say, I’m I have depression and I have anxiety disorder. And I was expecting silence and instead what I heard was a chorus of me too. And I thought it was just me and I’m I’m the exact same way. And I have never told anybody that. It was shocking and wonderful and freeing. And the really amazing thing that that came from that is that I have this this thing called the the folder of 24. And it was when I first started on my last book tour. I had 24 letters that had come out from people who were actively in the process of planning their suicide and decided not to not because of anything that I wrote, but because of the response of what they saw, because they saw a thousand other people say, oh my God, I thought it was just me. And they realized I am really not alone. And they got help and they’re still alive today. And what I think is what I think is so awesome about that is that, first of all, that’s such a wonderful and amazing, you know, thing to be able to be a part of. But what’s really amazing is how many people out there who felt like they just threw their voice into the darkness to say, me too, even anonymously, that you they have saved a life just by that, that one comment. And by speaking up, even if it was completely anonymous and, you know, just being able to give people that that space to do it and the community support, it makes such a difference. And even though it was accidental, it was really wonderful. There’s an authenticity discussion that we have a lot here at the College of Journalism, particularly in the field of public interest communications. And I’m sure many of you do as well. There’s no question that you are speaking authentically. But what sort of toll does that take on you that you are now the tribal leader? It is tribal leader. I don’t think I would use that term. It can be really exhausting. I’ve had to learn to set limits. I say no to things way more than I say yes. When I am traveling, last week I was in New York and, you know, I’m in Times Square and I look out my window and I’m like, anybody else would be like, this is so amazing. Let’s go. Let’s do this. And I just was like, I can’t do this. I’m going to stay in this hotel room until someone comes and finds me and says, you need to come to this meeting and then I’m going to go home. And that’s the right decision for me. It’s not for everybody, but that’s what works for me. I also have, I’m really good about setting limits. And I think there’s something really wonderful about saying I can’t do this because it kind of makes everybody else feel like, oh, it’s okay to say no to. On book tour a lot, I would get to the point where I was like, I’m having a really bad time. I need five minutes and I would just duck behind the podium. And people would be like, that’s fine, whatever. We’ll just talk amongst ourselves. Especially in Texas because they sort of booze at all of the bookstores and so they were drunk anyway. And it was so fantastic because not only was this feeling of acceptance that you could be who you want to be and everyone has your back, but also so many people showed up at the book tour and they would be like, I have not left the house in a month. And this is the first time that I left the house and I didn’t want to be here, but I’m here and I met somebody in line. And now I have somebody who I can be friends with here in this town and it’s amazing. There are people who are married because they met on the blog. And I mean, that’s to me, it’s such, I’m very, I consider myself extremely lucky that I’m part of this community. And I would not say that I’m a leader in any way. It just happens and I like open the space and good things happen. That’s phenomenal. So I guess my next question is what’s the first anniversary etiquette? What taxidermy to animal do you send to the couple that got married because of your blog? I’m going to say stote. Stote? Yeah, yeah, stote. And they’re pretty cheap, which is good. And that’s nice. And they usually they’re standing up so it’s much easier to put clothes on them. And if you get the really skinny ones, they can wear Barbie clothes, but they open in the back so you can’t. You know what? I like holding them this way because it looks like I’m breastfeeding. This is nice. This is good. I need a sling, some sort of a baby sling. Sorry. I’ll make a trend. We’ll get. Where are the photographers? You’ve also so in addition to the folder of 24, you’ve done a couple other projects and one that particularly elder were in February just closed again this year, right? Which is the James Garfield Christmas project. Yes, the James Garfield Christmas miracle, which is the most ridiculous. This actually is my favorite favorite project ever. I want to say this. It was the fifth year. I think it was the fifth year. Yeah. Okay, so this is this is that’s James Garfield. And I saw him at an estate sale and I was like, he’s so fucking happy. Look at him. I he’s, oh my gosh, he’s me. He’s all broken, but he’s like, I’m trying to be happy. And I told my husband, I was like, I’m getting this. And he was like, no, no, no, no, no, you’re not like, you don’t let me spend money on crap. And I was like, you call James Garfield crap. And he was like, you’ve named it. No, stop it. And, and I, and so I was like, I will make the money back up. Just, just get him. And so I did. He was $90 and which was like a lot of money for a taxidermy bore. And, and so I went back on the internet and I was like, I am going to make these homemade Christmas cards with James Garfield. And I need for like nine of you to buy them for $10 each so that my husband will stop bitching at me. And, and that was one of them. It just got all kinds of motherfucking festive in here, y’all. And what happened was like tons of people bought them and I ended up, I can’t remember, like I made like thousands of dollars. And so I, so I took that money and I was like, okay, that was unexpected money. And so if there’s anybody out there, this was at Christmas time, if there’s anybody out there who is struggling because I grew up super, super poor. And I know what it’s like. And if there’s anybody who needs toys for their kids and they don’t know how to get them, I’m going to buy a whole bunch of $30 gift cards in the first, I don’t know, 30 people or so who say that they need one. I’ll send it to you. And so the first 30 were gone, like, you know, very quickly. And then the 31st person came in the 32nd. And so I went to talk to my husband and he was like, well, just, just cover it. Like we can, we can, we can do it. We can do a few. But by the time I got back to check the internet, someone else had said, I’ll do the 31st person. I’d like to do that. And then somebody else said, I’ll do the 32nd person. What happened was thousands of people stepped up and said, can you, can you match me with somebody who needs help? And not only did we’re, I want to say like $40,000 worth of gift certificates were given back and forth, but it was so amazing that somebody would get matched up with somebody. And, and then they would be like, you know what, that was too much. And I don’t, I don’t need that much. So I’m going to pass it on to the next person. And then somebody else would be like, you know, I want, I want to, to, you know, give this for my kids, but to thank the person, I’m going to make, I’m going to admit for the next 10 people or I make this or I make this. And I, well, it ended up becoming enormous and big and bigger and bigger. And we have done it every year. And as a matter of fact, the second year, I wasn’t even going to do it because it was exhausting. And the second year, all these people came out and said, I was a recipient. I’m doing so much better this year. Can I give? And all of the people who had gotten the first year were the ones who were like, oh, I can’t, I’m so excited. I’m going to sponsor this. And I want to say we’re around like a quarter million dollars has been given, which is insane. It’s so lovely and underground and there’s no sponsors. Nobody writes about it. It’s just very quiet. It’s so fantastic. And you see these people who have made like long-term friends with the people that they’ve been matched with. And they, you know, still, there’s even like a Facebook page, which I don’t even, I’m not even in control of it, but there’s a Facebook page of people who are, who got together because of James Garfield and who help other people and pass it on. And everyone’s trying to go out and I’m like, what are you all doing? Okay, cool. So is it going to continue? I think so. Yeah, I think as long as it can stay, you know, authentic and real and small and it’s lovely. It’s really lovely. Actually, lately we’ve switched a little bit more. We still do the, you know, give-into-other-kids and wish list and stuff like that, but we do a lot of bags for homeless kids for Project Night Night because they were running like really low during like hurricanes and things like that. So we sponsor that a lot and we’ve been able to fulfill a lot of their campaigns. So anyway, you know what, it’s kind of funny too because I always look at it and I’m like, there’s so many things that I want to do and I want to get involved with like a charity or something and they don’t really want to touch me, you know? There’s an awful lot of like, eww, no, I’m sorry, what are you writing about? It’s a little bit edgy and no, you’re getting the, you know. So I really have to go out and search for and be like, hey, can I, you know, donate to your charity? Are you okay with being associated with me? And it’s surprising how often I’ll hear that from other bloggers as well who are like, you know, I want to find a good fit but I’m afraid that whoever I partner with is going to be like, well, you can’t say that or you can’t say that, which is why I’ve never had a sponsor or any of that. But I do think it’s getting better. That’s great. From my perspective here, Higgins, when you’re just describing some of the drawbacks of partnering with you, he’s just looking like he’s going, girlfriend, please. Oh, yeah, he’s like, or he’s giving me a high five. He’s like, yeah, you tell him. Yeah, it’s both. It’s getting better. Choose your meaning, I guess. Another project that you’re kind of known for it or at least helped raise the profile of is the red dress project. Yes. The red dress project I was years ago. I have always wanted the sun’s incredibly stupid. I’ve always wanted to have a giant red ball gown. And I don’t know why, but I just always wanted one and I have no reason to wear it and a place to wear it. And I finally said, you know what? I am worth doing something incredibly stupid. And so I went and found a friend who makes these gowns and she bought like 800 yards of like crinoline and made this enormous red dress that like laces up the back so that it would fit no matter what size I was. And I called one of my friends and who was a photographer and she was like, well, we need some place green. We’ll take a picture of you and it’s Houston. So the only place green is a cemetery. So I, yeah, and I couldn’t fit the dress. I couldn’t fit the dress in the car because it was so big. So I had to like, I wore my pajamas and then when I got there, I put the dress on. So I’m naked in a cemetery. And I’m pretty sure you got a help for that. But it was worth it because those pictures were awesome. But I ended up writing about it and I wrote about the fact that sometimes you have to do something stupid and irrelevant and crazy. And that those are the moments that make your life. And there’s nothing stupid about giving yourself a present and being nice to yourself. And that for me, the red dress was a red dress. But for a lot of people, the red dress is crossing a finish line or owning a house for the first time or graduating from college or whatever it is that that thing is that you think, oh, I’m never going to be able to do this or oh, I’m not worth it. And what happened was somebody who read my blog, left a comment and said, I’m severely agoraphobic. I have not left my house in months, but I’m going to go to this conference in New York. And that’s my red dress. That’s my finish line because I’ve been working on this and I’m going to do it. And I happened to be going to that same conference and I said, I’ll bring the red dress and you can wear it. And so I met her in the hotel room and took pictures and she cried and I cried. And I shared the pictures and someone else said, you know what, I am 45 and I just bought my first house and I would love to take a picture of me wearing the red dress on the porch of my house. So I sent it to her and then someone else said, you know what, I am transitioning and I’m going to come out as a woman to my coworkers for the first time. I would love to be able to wear this red dress. And so I was like, yes, absolutely. So I actually went and shot her myself because I was like, I’m going to do these pictures are going to be awesome. It has gone all over the world. And what was really amazing is so many people were inspired by it that other people started to say, I have this red dress that I had from prom and it’s a size 16. Does anybody want it? And somebody would be like, oh my gosh, yes, I want it. And all of a sudden there were thousands of red dresses being sent all over the place and they would just go up on Facebook and people would be like, here’s this one and it’s a size zero. Here’s this one. It’s a size 22. Here’s this one. And people would post first of all their pictures. But secondly, all of these photographers got involved and were like, if you have a great story, like if you’re doing this to celebrate something, just let me know and I will do your shoot for free. And there are so many amazing photographs online and stories and things that just like break your heart and make your heart. Even a child who was nine and was suffering from very, very severe mental illness and were her own red dress and absolutely loved it. It was really incredible. People are good. There. There. You often use a lot of humor in your blog. And I was struck by one post that you wrote following the Ferguson decision because it was remarkably, I won’t say unusually, but for you unusually devoid of humor. What prompted you to write it like that? Or what sort of reaction did you get from your audience? For the most part, I stay away from anything that is heavy because I kind of feel like when people come to my blog, they come there because maybe they’re sad and they want something light. And I feel like it’s my responsibility really to be light and happy. I had a real problem though during Ferguson and then the results after that and the non-trial and there came a point where I just couldn’t write anything funny. And I was really depressed and sad and not just a chemical depressed, but really just thinking, I just hate the world right now. I just don’t like the way that things are and I can’t do anything about it and I can’t find a funny way to write about it. I just, I don’t know what to do. And I noticed so many people in my Facebook stream who either were so angry or completely silent or completely confused. And so I decided to write about the feeling of compassion and about that if you’re feeling pain, that means that your empathy is working. And that I have to keep telling myself that this is uncomfortable and awful and it hurts and it hurts to see other people yell and it hurts to see other people in pain and scared and it hurts to see other people confused and not understand. It hurts, everyone is hurt on every level, but that that pain, recognizing that you have that pain makes you a human. And that was really helpful for me to first of all put that out there and secondly to be able to say this is an important thing. And I’m not the person that you need to be listening to. Like there are other voices who are talking about this better, but it’s okay if you are confused or angry or scared because we’re all that same way. And I didn’t get a single troll. I didn’t get, everybody was incredibly kind and nice and honest about their fears or their confusion or their issues. It was really wonderful and helped me over a hurdle that I was having. And actually that was the big thing that I got back from that was a reminder that people are good because you’d see all these people who would share it and say, yes, this, I didn’t have the words for it either and I haven’t wanted to say anything because I don’t know what to say, but yes, it hurts. So let’s pretend this never happened, sorry. Well, let’s do both. Well, let’s pretend this didn’t happen. We read some of the success metrics, it’s moved up and down Amazon. You’ve got another book coming out in the next 12 months, right? I do, yeah. Probably in the fall. I was drunk at the time that I pitched it because I was like, hey, you know what I should do? What if I write a funny book about mental illness? And then my editor was like, sure, and then I had to write it and it was really hard. It’s really, really hard, but it has almost finished and it’s gotten good, I don’t know what are they called, pre-reviews, like the arcs and whatever. So it’s hard, it’s different, it’s still really funny, really irreverent, really irreverent. Like seriously, everybody’s going to be offended. It starts with an apology. But I do go, as a matter of fact, I think it might be a bit of a surprise for a lot of my readers because I talk a lot more about… In the blog, I talk about depression and anxiety disorder, and I think so many people at one point or another have that. But we have a tendency to, like that’s the sort of the chic sort of, you know, like that’s okay. And I kind of talk a little bit more about self-harm and about a personality disorder that I have and about… So I am a little afraid, honestly, of how it’s going to be received and whether it will be received in the same, oh, I totally feel you sort of way. Or in a like, oh, what? Let me take a step back here. That sounds dangerous. What are you doing? What’s, you know… So, but I think it’ll be good. It was hard to write, but hopefully it will be easy to read. And one of the people who read it said, his thing that he sent me back was, it’s funny as hell and it will help a lot of people out of theirs. And that was, I was like, alright. And throughout the blog in your book, you’ve been remarkably open about your own evolution in dealing with mental health and putting yourself in uncomfortable situations. So this looks like it’s another one, including one of my favorite quotes when you were going to a blogger’s group, or blogger’s retreat. You said, girls are like small bears, cute to look at but far too dangerous to have lunch with. Which is a similar outlook I had about 20 years ago when I was 14, but 13. Has writing the book and the blog helped you become more comfortable with where you are and who you are? Absolutely, absolutely. I used to be very much a, I don’t trust girls just generally. And I now look back on that and think, what was that all about? I’m not really sure if that was just a hangover from high school, which is awful, or what it was. But what I found is that other people are much more accepting of me than I am accepting of me. And so I have to keep reminding myself of that. The other thing that I do, and I’ve talked about this a little bit before, but I do struggle with lots of different things including anxiety and imposter syndrome and feeling like I’m just a giant, worthless, nothing. As a matter of fact, even here I’m like, really? Like follow the Pulitzer Prize? I don’t even have a spell Pulitzer. And I’ve got a Bobcat. The story that I always tell is I was doing my audiobook and this was before the book had come out, so I didn’t know that it was going to be a best seller and I was really scared. And every time I would talk, they could hear it in my voice. And my voice would crack and every time they would be like, cut, nope, nope, nah, er. And they were going to replace me and I just had this one shot to prove that I could do it. And I was like, it’s my story, I have to read it, I can’t let somebody else read it. And they were like, why don’t you just go for a walk, come back, you can come back later, and maybe you’ll be better. And I left thinking that they were going to call Betty White because she had just left. And I went out and Neil Gaiman, who if you don’t know who he is, go read everything he has ever written, I sent him a tweet and I was like, hey, you’re really good at reading stuff. Like can you tell, I’m about to lose this opportunity, what do I do? And he texted me back a single thing that said, a tweeted back a single thing that said, pretend you’re good at it. And I went in there and I pretended I was someone who could do it. I went through the entire page without them stopping me once and the producer was like, what did you just do? Because whatever you just did, you need to do more of it. And I was like, I just did a lot of cocaine. And then I was like, no, I’m kidding, I just, I got some good advice. And even to this day, I still, like I write, pretend you’re good at it before I go out on any stage. And that’s what I do, right? Before I’m just about to run away, I look at it and I think one day I’m going to be able to scratch out the pretend and just be, you’re good at it. But until then, pretending is working. Well, Jenny. Thank you. I’m going to cry. Thank you. Thank you.